Für alle Freunde der Berechnung :)
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Für alle Freunde der Berechnung :)
Danke an : http://bruglir.wordpress.com/
Let me prefix this blog post with a couple of apologies.
firstly i need to apologise for not posting in a while, life’s been a bit hectic and i’ve found it hard to keep the blog “regular”.
secondly, i need to apologise to Steven and Andy at biowaremythic. Last night i didn’t have my thinking cap on, and must have come across as extremely dense in the tester IRC channel. i came out with a lot of sensationalist statements that really, after sleeping on it, don’t hold much water. it’s not like me to do something like that and i’ll try not to let it happen again.
thirdly, to you guys, the readers and players. i need to apologise to you, for giving you the wrong impression in this thread. in that thread i said this: “i’m pretty sure it’s designed to keep rr80′s who don’t buy the progression pack “competetive”. as an rr100 will hit an rr80, the same way another rr80 will. the problem is, an rr100 hitting another rr100, will be hitting for absolutely rediculous amounts due to the way the values scale.”
This post is going to be a bit numbers heavy, but it should provide some insight as to why what i said was wrong. I literally slept on it, and now i’m thinking a bit clearer.
Now, everything in war scales with rank. your player ranks up from 140. and then upon hitting 80, you gain a effective +1 rank, and all of your calculations are then based off of rank 41. a similar thing happens post80. what mythic are doing, is giving you 5 additional effective ranks as you move up to rr100. you could assume from this, that you gain one every 4 renown ranks. so that when you’re rr100, you have an effective rank of 46 for all calculations.
you might want to know why this is important… well, firtly, your tooltips are all based on rank 40. so they are inaccurate as you gain renown. secondly, as previously stated, your rank affects everything, from how hard you hit, to how high your softcaps are, and even how likely you are to be crit. let’s take a look at a couple of calculations. i’ll do four, two rr80′s hitting each other, two rr100′s hitting each other, and an rr80 hitting an rr100 (and vice versa).
our toons will have the same weapons, but different armour (and therefor slightly different stats). both will be wearing medium armour, and have a two handed weapon who’s dps value is 101.5, they also have a +50% damage bonus from mechanic (can you guess the career yet?). please note that in an effort to limit variables i’ve chosen to use the same armour class, and the same toughness value (as they don’t change much anyway). the other stats do have considderable differences though.
at rr80, our toons have 1050 strength, 400 melee power, 300 toughness, 280 initiative and 600 weaponskill, with 3060 armour.
at rr100, our toons have 1400 strength, 400 melee power, 300 toughness, 320 initiative and 1000 weaponskill, with 4260 armour.
now for the calculations, Auto attack damage is calculated as:
x = Base Damage
x ( + – ) = Stat Bonus
(( + ) / 10) x = Raw Damage
crit chance = ( x 10
/ / 110 = Armor Mitigation %
/ ( x 30 + 200) = Armor Penetration %
x (1 – ) can’t be greater than 0.75
final damage = crit damage x (1 – ( x (1 – )))
our RR80 will hit for:
101.5 x 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x ( 1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) * 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage.
against another rr80:
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.67 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.67 x (1 – 0.42))) = 707.15 max damage.
Against an rr100
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 320 x 10 = 11.17% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
4260 / 41 / 110 = 0.94 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 +200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.94 x (1 – 0.38))) = 456.24 max damage
and now for the rr100 hits:
101.5 * 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x (1400 + 400 – 300) = 5100
((345.1 + 5100) / 10) x 1.5 = 816.76 (rounded 817) raw damage
against an rr80
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 1225.5 and 1388.9 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.6 armour mitigation
1000 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.69 armour penetration
1388.9 x (1 – (.6 x (1 – .69))) = 1130.56 max damage
against another rr100
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 320 x 10 = 12.34% chance to crit for between 1225.5 and 1388.9 damage
4260 / 46 / 110 = 0.84 armour mitigation
1000 / (46 x 30 + 200) = 0.63 armour penetration
1388.9 x (1 – (.84 x (1 – .63))) = 958.34 max damage
so, as you can see. an rr100 vs an rr80 will definitely have a distinct advantage, and even vs another rr100 the damage should scale fairly well. one of the reasons for people hitting so hard last night on the pts, was that some abilities seemed to scale “wrong”. this was confirmed by mythic shortly after Steven and Andy came to test with some core testers and regular members in eataine, where they decided to take down the PTS to fix the errors.
i look forward to testing out the new, working armour sets soon. and hopefully now we can copy our regular characters to pts, we can arrange some actual rr80 vs rr100 fights, to see how big the difference really is.
Thanks to Moromer for proof reading this to make sure my math was sound. also, if any other theorycrafters can point out inaccuracies in the formulae for future, that would be great.
edit: a question was raised in the thread as to why should someone bother to level past 80, would they not gain anything out of it if they didn’t manage to get hold of warpforged gear etc.
in the example i gave, both weapons had the same dps values (rr75 weapons). the only thing that changed were the character rank, and the stats that the improved armour allowed.
if i were to further narrow down the changes and go for an rr80 vs an rr100, with the same initiative and strength, and armour values etc. essentially have both toons wearing full sovereign, it would look like this:
RR80 will hit for:
101.5 x 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x ( 1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) * 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage.
against another rr80:
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.67 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.67 x (1 – 0.42))) = 707.15 max damage.
Against an rr100
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.94 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 +200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.94 x (1 – 0.38))) = 456.24 max damage
and now for the rr100 hits:
101.5 * 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x (1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) x 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage
against an rr80
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.66 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (.66 x (1 – .42))) = 670.28 max damage
against another rr100
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.66 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 + 200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (.66 x (1 – .38))) = 640.78 max damage
so what you can see from this, is that an rr80 will hit an rr100 considderably less than another rr80, but an rr100 in sovereign instead of doomflayer (ie. identical stats) will only hit for moderately more damage.
with that in mind though, some of the nonset items i saw on pts last night had some amazing stats at rr98 or so. which leads me to believe you could possibly see “better” than sovereign stats on nonset items, but you won’t get things like the sovereign proc bonuses.
Let me prefix this blog post with a couple of apologies.
firstly i need to apologise for not posting in a while, life’s been a bit hectic and i’ve found it hard to keep the blog “regular”.
secondly, i need to apologise to Steven and Andy at biowaremythic. Last night i didn’t have my thinking cap on, and must have come across as extremely dense in the tester IRC channel. i came out with a lot of sensationalist statements that really, after sleeping on it, don’t hold much water. it’s not like me to do something like that and i’ll try not to let it happen again.
thirdly, to you guys, the readers and players. i need to apologise to you, for giving you the wrong impression in this thread. in that thread i said this: “i’m pretty sure it’s designed to keep rr80′s who don’t buy the progression pack “competetive”. as an rr100 will hit an rr80, the same way another rr80 will. the problem is, an rr100 hitting another rr100, will be hitting for absolutely rediculous amounts due to the way the values scale.”
This post is going to be a bit numbers heavy, but it should provide some insight as to why what i said was wrong. I literally slept on it, and now i’m thinking a bit clearer.
Now, everything in war scales with rank. your player ranks up from 140. and then upon hitting 80, you gain a effective +1 rank, and all of your calculations are then based off of rank 41. a similar thing happens post80. what mythic are doing, is giving you 5 additional effective ranks as you move up to rr100. you could assume from this, that you gain one every 4 renown ranks. so that when you’re rr100, you have an effective rank of 46 for all calculations.
you might want to know why this is important… well, firtly, your tooltips are all based on rank 40. so they are inaccurate as you gain renown. secondly, as previously stated, your rank affects everything, from how hard you hit, to how high your softcaps are, and even how likely you are to be crit. let’s take a look at a couple of calculations. i’ll do four, two rr80′s hitting each other, two rr100′s hitting each other, and an rr80 hitting an rr100 (and vice versa).
our toons will have the same weapons, but different armour (and therefor slightly different stats). both will be wearing medium armour, and have a two handed weapon who’s dps value is 101.5, they also have a +50% damage bonus from mechanic (can you guess the career yet?). please note that in an effort to limit variables i’ve chosen to use the same armour class, and the same toughness value (as they don’t change much anyway). the other stats do have considderable differences though.
at rr80, our toons have 1050 strength, 400 melee power, 300 toughness, 280 initiative and 600 weaponskill, with 3060 armour.
at rr100, our toons have 1400 strength, 400 melee power, 300 toughness, 320 initiative and 1000 weaponskill, with 4260 armour.
now for the calculations, Auto attack damage is calculated as:
((
crit chance = (
final damage = crit damage x (1 – (
our RR80 will hit for:
101.5 x 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x ( 1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) * 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage.
against another rr80:
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.67 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.67 x (1 – 0.42))) = 707.15 max damage.
Against an rr100
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 320 x 10 = 11.17% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
4260 / 41 / 110 = 0.94 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 +200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.94 x (1 – 0.38))) = 456.24 max damage
and now for the rr100 hits:
101.5 * 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x (1400 + 400 – 300) = 5100
((345.1 + 5100) / 10) x 1.5 = 816.76 (rounded 817) raw damage
against an rr80
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 1225.5 and 1388.9 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.6 armour mitigation
1000 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.69 armour penetration
1388.9 x (1 – (.6 x (1 – .69))) = 1130.56 max damage
against another rr100
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 320 x 10 = 12.34% chance to crit for between 1225.5 and 1388.9 damage
4260 / 46 / 110 = 0.84 armour mitigation
1000 / (46 x 30 + 200) = 0.63 armour penetration
1388.9 x (1 – (.84 x (1 – .63))) = 958.34 max damage
so, as you can see. an rr100 vs an rr80 will definitely have a distinct advantage, and even vs another rr100 the damage should scale fairly well. one of the reasons for people hitting so hard last night on the pts, was that some abilities seemed to scale “wrong”. this was confirmed by mythic shortly after Steven and Andy came to test with some core testers and regular members in eataine, where they decided to take down the PTS to fix the errors.
i look forward to testing out the new, working armour sets soon. and hopefully now we can copy our regular characters to pts, we can arrange some actual rr80 vs rr100 fights, to see how big the difference really is.
Thanks to Moromer for proof reading this to make sure my math was sound. also, if any other theorycrafters can point out inaccuracies in the formulae for future, that would be great.
edit: a question was raised in the thread as to why should someone bother to level past 80, would they not gain anything out of it if they didn’t manage to get hold of warpforged gear etc.
in the example i gave, both weapons had the same dps values (rr75 weapons). the only thing that changed were the character rank, and the stats that the improved armour allowed.
if i were to further narrow down the changes and go for an rr80 vs an rr100, with the same initiative and strength, and armour values etc. essentially have both toons wearing full sovereign, it would look like this:
RR80 will hit for:
101.5 x 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x ( 1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) * 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage.
against another rr80:
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.67 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.67 x (1 – 0.42))) = 707.15 max damage.
Against an rr100
(41 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 12.75% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 41 / 110 = 0.94 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 +200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (0.94 x (1 – 0.38))) = 456.24 max damage
and now for the rr100 hits:
101.5 * 3.4 = 345.1
3.4 x (1050 + 400 – 300) = 3910
((345.1 + 3910) / 10) x 1.5 = 638.26 (rounded 638) raw damage
against an rr80
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.66 armour mitigation
600 / (41 x 30 + 200) = 0.42 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (.66 x (1 – .42))) = 670.28 max damage
against another rr100
(46 x 7.5 + 50) / 280 x 10 = 14.10% chance to crit for between 957.4 and 1084.6 damage
3060 / 46 / 110 = 0.66 armour mitigation
600 / (46 x 30 + 200) = 0.38 armour penetration
1084.6 x (1 – (.66 x (1 – .38))) = 640.78 max damage
so what you can see from this, is that an rr80 will hit an rr100 considderably less than another rr80, but an rr100 in sovereign instead of doomflayer (ie. identical stats) will only hit for moderately more damage.
with that in mind though, some of the nonset items i saw on pts last night had some amazing stats at rr98 or so. which leads me to believe you could possibly see “better” than sovereign stats on nonset items, but you won’t get things like the sovereign proc bonuses.
Re: Für alle Freunde der Berechnung :)
sieht einfach aus, aber ich glaube da steckt mehr drin, ob das so passt ist die frage
Inghäm Neuling
 Anzahl der Beiträge : 28
Anmeldedatum : 16.10.10
Re: Für alle Freunde der Berechnung :)
naja wurde geprüft und bestätigt, das sollte so passen dneke ich
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